| LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
Official
Record of Debate
(Hansard)
Bill
30, the Volunteer Fire Fighters Employment Protection
Act
Third
Reading Debate
December
9, 2002
Mr
Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): It's an honour
to move third reading of my private member's Bill 30,
the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act.
While
it's considered a rare instance that a private member's
bill is moved forward to this point, a look at the past
seven months should explain not only why we are still
debating Bill 30, but why we must see that it's passed
into law. Bill 30 is intended to stop tactics of harassment
and intimidation used by the firefighters' union leadership
to threaten their members who also serve as volunteers
in their home communities. The damage is done as these
double-hatters succumb to threats and are forced to
quit their volunteer posts.
I
would like to remind the House about Tim Lee. Mr Lee
is a full-time firefighter who works in Whitby and volunteers
in Kawartha Lakes. He was recently convicted by his
union for the so-called offence of volunteering. He
has been expelled from his union. Although he is appealing
their decision, his future employment remains uncertain.
You may know, Mr Speaker, that most of the collective
agreements involving professional firefighters include
a clause that states that you must be a member in good
standing of your union if you wish to remain employed.
So in a very real sense, when Mr Lee says he stands
to lose his job, his fears are not unfounded.
This
is nothing short of outrageous. How can this House remain
silent when volunteerism is assaulted in this manner?
Surely everyone has the right to volunteer in their
community and on their own free time, and in the discipline
in which they are trained and skilled. Mr Lee's courage
is an inspiration. He isn't quitting. Every member of
this House should agree that Tim Lee and hundreds like
him should have the right to volunteer on their own
free time. Bill 30 would preserve that right.
The
fire marshal has stated that legislation of this type
is needed to avoid putting public safety at risk. Bill
30 had two days of public hearings before the standing
committee on justice and social policy, on October 15
and 21. I was very encouraged when the fire marshal
appeared to express support for the principle of the
bill. Members may know that the primary function of
the office of the fire marshal is to minimize the loss
of life and property from fire by assisting municipalities
and fire departments to improve fire protection and
fire prevention services.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
The
Ontario fire marshal also advises the provincial government
on standards and legislative developments that relate
to fire protection and fire prevention. Fire marshal
Bernard Moyle is an experienced, dedicated public servant
who is non-political, and his voice is relevant -- indeed,
it is central -- to this debate. He said the following
when he spoke of the discussions that have taken place
involving the firefighters' union and AMO:
"There
simply was no common ground for agreement on a non-legislated
solution.
"For
the reasons stated above, it is our opinion that an
enforceable and sustainable non-legislated solution
to the two-hatter issue is not achievable.
"...
It is my understanding that the" Ontario Professional
Fire Fighters Association "committed to the moratorium
as long as constructive dialogue was taking place. This
is no longer the case, so the moratorium was lifted.
This is not intended as a criticism of the" Ontario
Professional Fire Fighters Association, "as they
have a legal right to enforce their constitution. However,
the lifting of the moratorium by the" Ontario Professional
Fire Fighters Association "will likely exacerbate
the existing tension and uncertainty in both the fire
service and municipal communities, and it is unclear
to what extent and degree this action will impact on
existing two-hatters.
"The
sudden or phased withdrawal of two-hatters from communities
dependent on volunteer fire departments could significantly
impact on their ability to provide an adequate level
of fire protection and may in some cases pose a potential
serious threat to public safety for the following reasons.
"There
would be a loss of experience, leadership and expertise
in some communities. In fact, for that very reason,
even a single two-hatter can make a significant difference
in a small rural community. For example, some two-hatters
serve as senior officers and captains and have fire
prevention and training responsibilities, which are
key functions in any fire department.
"There
may be a reduced capacity for providing adequate emergency
responses during weekdays, when two-hatters are more
readily available due to their shift schedules.
"Increased
response times may occur, at least until replacements
can be recruited and adequately trained, if in fact
replacements are available within the community. There
may be an increased time in which to assemble an adequate
fire attack team and a potential short-term reduction
in fire ground effectiveness, resulting in greater fire
losses.
"The
time required to recruit and train full-time, part-time
or volunteer firefighters could be extensive, creating
short-term delivery difficulties. In some" small
"communities there may not be a pool of potential
candidates available to become volunteer firefighters
and a community may not be able to afford hiring full-time
firefighters, creating a potential public safety issue.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
"In
a" small "number of communities that have
a heavy reliance on two-hatters, the sudden withdrawal
of their services could create a potential serious threat
to public safety.
"In
conclusion, there is a provincial and public interest
in protecting two-hatters who wish to serve as volunteer
firefighters. We do not believe that a non-legislated
solution is achievable or enforceable. As a result,
without a legislated solution, the existing tensions
and uncertainty in the" volunteer fire service
"will continue, and the high potential for two-hatters
to resign as a result of" the Ontario Professional
Fire Fighters Association's "constitutional enforcement
activities could well result in significant public safety
concerns arising. It is my understanding that such protection
is not uncommon in most jurisdictions in Canada and
the United States" of America.
"In
closing, my office recognizes the importance of balancing
interests where possible, but supports first and foremost
the need to develop a legislated solution that clearly
protects the interests of public safety. It is important
that career firefighters who wish to serve as part-time
or volunteer firefighters in their home communities
are permitted to do so without fear of loss of employment."
I
remind the members that this is not just me talking
over here. That was the presentation of the fire marshal
to the standing committee on justice and social policy
while the committee was discussing and deliberating
Bill 30 on October 21.
I've
been encouraged by the support of many of the interested
groups who are concerned about this issue. The Association
of Municipalities of Ontario has been steadfast in their
support since I introduced the bill in May. They have
repeatedly lobbied every member of this House.
I
was also very encouraged when I received the resolution
passed by LUMCO, the Large Urban Mayors' Caucus of Ontario,
in August. This resolution, which was signed by LUMCO
chair Hazel McCallion, is significant because it underlines
the fact that this bill does not pertain only to the
interests of rural Ontario but to urban Ontario as well.
MPPs who represent largely urban constituencies need
to understand this when they consider their position
on my bill.
Thanks
in large part to AMO's help in getting the word out,
some 79 municipal councils have passed resolutions in
support of the principles embodied in Bill 30.
I
want to especially say thank you to the region of Waterloo
council and the council of the county of Wellington,
as well as the local municipalities who offered their
support in Waterloo-Wellington.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
The
Fire Fighters Association of Ontario, which as you know
is the organization representing the volunteer fire
departments in the province, is just as strong in their
support of Bill 30 as is AMO. In fact, one of their
executive members, Fire Chief Doug Smith of Puslinch
township, was actually the first person to bring this
problem to my attention on March 18, 2002, earlier this
year, when he came to my constituency office to express
his concern that double-hatters in the province were
being threatened by the union leadership. My recollection
is that he told me that up to one third of his firefighters
are double-hatters at the Puslinch fire department.
He expressed concern that without his double-hatters,
their ability to respond to emergencies would be seriously
compromised. I think I should add that the Puslinch
township fire department is one of the busiest fire
departments in the province of Ontario and that they
cover part of Highway 401, which means they're the first
emergency response when there's a traffic accident on
the 401 through Puslinch township. They are very busy,
and they need their double-hatters.
1900
It
was at that point that I began to investigate the possibility
of doing a private member's bill that led to Bill 30.
At that time I knew I had a private member's ballot
item coming up and that I would need an issue. In looking
at the issues I had before me, I thought this was a
good one to bring forward. I was assisted by the member
for Ottawa-Vanier, in terms of her willingness to trade
her private member's ballot item with mine so that mine
could be debated in June.
Mr
Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Not a Liberal.
Mr
Arnott: An independent, as a matter of fact.
Recently,
I was pleased to receive the support of the Ontario
Association of Fire Chiefs. They called a special general
meeting of Ontario's fire chiefs on November 20 to discuss
my bill. They concluded that, "It is the position
of the Ontario Association of Fire Chiefs that Bill
30, as amended, protects those full-time firefighters
who provide emergency services in their communities
as volunteer firefighters." They went on to say:
"Bill 30 also minimizes the impact on a firefighter
association's right to discipline their members, and
maintains the right of an affected firefighter to fire
service employment and fair representation. It is time
for this legislation to be fully supported by all MPPs
and to work toward ensuring a vibrant and community-minded
framework for fire and emergency services across the
province."
At
this time, I want to say a special word of thanks to
a number of my colleagues who supported Bill 30 at second
reading, in some cases taking considerable political
risk by taking a stand in favour of what I believe is
just and right.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
I want to thank John Baird, Marcel Beaubien, Claudette
Boyer, Tony Clement, Brian Coburn, Sean Conway, Dianne
Cunningham, Carl DeFaria, Garfield Dunlop, Doug Galt,
Steve Gilchrist, Raminder Gill, Ernie Hardeman, John
Hastings, Chris Hodgson, Tim Hudak, Frank Klees, Margaret
Marland, Bart Maves, Ted McMeekin, Norm Miller, Tina
Molinari, Julia Munro, Dan Newman, John O'Toole, Richard
Patten, Rob Sampson, Joe Spina, Norm Sterling, Gary
Stewart and David Turnbull.
Hon
Chris Stockwell (Minister of the Environment, Government
House Leader): What about me?
Mr
Arnott: You weren't here, but I'm counting on your vote
at third reading.
Lastly,
I want to express my appreciation to the Premier for
the interest he's shown on this issue. Not many days
ago, in response to a question he received from the
member for Toronto-Danforth, if I'm not mistaken, he
said, "The member for Waterloo-Wellington has a
bill that I believe should go forward and be acted upon."
The Premier was, of course, referring to Bill 30. His
statement led to an article that appeared in the National
Post on November 28, with a headline that said, "Premier
throws support behind `double-hatters': Backs private
member's bill, giving unionized firefighters more freedom."
I very much appreciated that article as well.
I
also need to thank my constituents in Waterloo-Wellington.
In the fall I sent out a newsletter about Bill 30 to
all the homes, farms and businesses in my riding. I
included in this newsletter the verbatim Hansard of
what was discussed at second reading. As well, I included
a postcard. I asked people to send it back to me if
they agreed with me and supported my bill. I was heartened
and encouraged by the response. I received more than
400 postcards back, and I'm continuing to receive them
through my Web site.
I
thank my constituents who have supported my efforts
on this and so many other issues during the last 12
years that I've been privileged to serve, representing
first the riding of Wellington and now Waterloo-Wellington.
I also want to thank my executive assistant, Andrew
Juby, who worked with me for the last couple of hours
to organize my thoughts in a way that we could present
to the House, having just been informed this afternoon
that this debate would take place at 6:45 tonight.
Most
of us have the opportunity to vote on private members'
bills according to our own beliefs, the opinion in our
constituency and, most importantly, according to our
own consciences. I believe that private members' business
is an important opportunity for MPPs to bring forward
important issues. I believe very strongly that private
members' bills, when supported by the House, should
be considered for final passage into law. I was very
pleased to be part of a process on the standing committee
on the Legislative Assembly which recently has brought
forward a report to this Legislature to try to enhance
the role of the backbencher. It included a number of
suggestions with respect to private members' bills.
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
For example, the member for Toronto-Danforth has a bill
which I know she sincerely wants to see passed into
law for the right reasons. I intend to support her bill
at third reading if it is called for a vote, and I say
that her bill should be called for vote. There are other
bills that should be voted on at third reading.
At
third reading, we have to be conscious of the fact that
with this vote a bill may very well pass into law. I
would say especially to our cabinet ministers, whom
I work with every day and respect very much, that each
of you needs to consider your position on this bill
very carefully. I understand for many of you it's very
difficult, especially at this point in the electoral
cycle. If you think you are opposed to my bill, I'm
asking that you examine your own conscience, thinking
of why you are opposed to this bill. Perhaps it is a
good reason. Honourable members will disagree on public
issues; that's the nature of this place. That is why
we have this Legislature: to debate and then decide.
I hope your reasons are not primarily based on political
expediency. As a cabinet minister, is it not your responsibility
to think of the interests of the whole province, not
just of some of the special interests in your riding?
In
conclusion, I want to state again that I have the deepest
respect for all our firefighters in the province of
Ontario, full-time and volunteer. I appreciate their
dedication -- I gather some of them are in the gallery,
and we welcome them here tonight -- their professionalism,
their courage and their valour. I especially appreciate
the work done by the double-hatters, who are prepared
to apply their dedication, their courage and their valour
to enhance the protection of their home communities.
Bill 30 is a tribute to them, and I ask all members
of this House to support its final passage into law.
LEGISLATIVE
ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
Bill
30, the Volunteer Fire Fighters Employment Protection
Act
Third
Reading Vote
December
11, 2002
The
division bells rang from 1421 to 1426.
The
Speaker: Just so that everybody is clear, all those
who are in favour will please rise and remain standing
until they've been checked by the Clerk. So please rise
and remaining standing if you're in favour of it.
Ayes
Arnott,
Ted
Baird,
John R.
Barrett,
Toby
Beaubien,
Marcel
Boyer,
Claudette
Chudleigh,
Ted
Clark,
Brad
Clement,
Tony
Coburn,
Brian
Conway,
Sean G.
DeFaria,
Carl
Galt,
Doug
Gilchrist,
Steve
Gill, Raminder
Hardeman,
Ernie
Hodgson,
Chris
Hudak,
Tim
Johns,
Helen
Johnson,
Bert
Klees,
Frank
Marland,
Margaret
Maves,
Bart
McMeekin,
Ted
Miller,
Norm
Molinari,
Tina R.
Munro,
Julia
Murdoch, Bill
O'Toole,
John
Sampson,
Rob
Snobelen,
John
Spina,
Joseph
Sterling,
Norman W.
Stewart,
R. Gary
Stockwell,
Chris
Tascona,
Joseph N.
Turnbull,
David
Wilson,
Jim
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
The Speaker: All those opposed will please rise and
remain standing until recognized by the Clerk.
Nays
Agostino,
Dominic
Bartolucci,
Rick
Bisson,
Gilles
Bountrogianni,
Marie
Bradley,
James J.
Brown,
Michael A.
Bryant,
Michael
Caplan,
David
Christopherson,
David
Churley,
Marilyn
Colle,
Mike
Cordiano,
Joseph
Crozier,
Bruce
Cunningham,
Dianne
Curling,
Alvin
Di
Cocco, Caroline
Dombrowsky,
Leona
Duncan,
Dwight
Ecker, Janet
Elliott,
Brenda
Gerretsen,
John
Guzzo,
Garry J.
Hampton,
Howard
Hastings,
John
Hoy,
Pat
Jackson,
Cameron
Kennedy,
Gerard
Kormos,
Peter
Kwinter,
Monte
Levac,
David
Martel,
shelley
Martin,
Tony
Martiniuk,
Gerry
Mazzilli,
Frank
McGuinty,
Dalton
McLeod,
Lyn
Newman, Dan
Ouellette,
Jerry J.
Parsons,
Ernie
Peters,
Steve
Phillips,
Gerry
Prue,
Michael
Pupatello,
Sandra
Ramsay,
David
Ruprecht,
Tony
Sergio,
Mario
Smitherman,
George
Sorbara,
Greg
Tsubouchi,
David H.
Wettlaufer,
Wayne
Witmer,
Elizabeth
Wood,
Bob
Clerk
of the House (Mr Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are
37; the nays are 52.
The
Speaker: I declare the motion lost.
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